Curse

astzzz · Jun 10, 2005, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jedsia

You can change professions after Ascenion if you do Heroes quest, thus unlocking skills for every single class in the game with ONE character.

There's not enough skill points to go around.

People ascend quickly because they want to PvP, so they can do things like hold the HoH or GvG. The only way they affect you is so you can play around in the Fissure or Underworld. Also they're using guildmates and other friends to get there, its hardly 'leeching' as you put it.

Have you ever held the HoH or won a GvG? Be honest.

Maybe one day you'll get to that point where you're very much into PvP, and you'll look back on threads like this and realize the dumb things you've said.

And as far as droknar armor in lowbie arenas: since when has arena mattered for anything?

Jedsia · Jun 10, 2005, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by astzzz

Have you ever held the HoH or won a GvG? Be honest.

Nope never had. Perfectly honest

As for realizing all the dumb things I've said...if it makes you feel better that I might go cry into my pillow about all this, go right ahead.

Seriously though, this has had some constructive input and some meaningless and overall has been very informative. I dont really see much point in trying to belittle.

Dreamsmith · Jun 10, 2005, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Oh for crying out loud.

If you don't like instantly jumping from level 3 to level 20, then don't do it!

"OMG, other people are playing the game in a way I don't like. HOW DO I STOP THEM?! People shouldn't be allowed to do anything I wouldn't do..."

First, explain how what they're doing is negatively impacting your ability to play the game the way you want to, and make it something more substantial than "it cheapens the experience". You don't deny other people the freedom to do what they want for reasons as comparatively flimsy as that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rothgar

And yes, the Ascension at level 3 effects everyone in the game, and if you can't see why, its pretty obvious, get a clue.

Rothgar, here's a clue for you: the game is instanced. It's almost impossible for the PvE actions of one player to affect any others, save those invited to play with him/her. It's pretty obvious that this doesn't affect others. If there is some way that it does, you'll need to explain it. Claiming it's obvious and therefore you don't have to explain your highly questionable assertion is a pretty shady dodge. If you really think it does affect others, explain how.

ElevenBravo · Jun 10, 2005, 06:43 PM // 18:43

I see nothing wrong with this, especially if the person already has 1 ascended character. Why should they have to redo all those missions again?

Nim · Jun 10, 2005, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by jYd

http://guildwars.paniconline.net/mod...iewtopic&t=111

^^ w00t ...i don't know how people ascended at lvl 3....that makes very little sense..you get lvl 2 just leaving ascalon...and 5000exp doing missions just to get ascended... that char 'had' ~6500

=-=-=-=-=-= to those who don't know..i had already done this once..i didn't plan on doing most the crap twice.

LOL... good job God of Sodomy... err... I mean Bile Smile. I hope it pisses off all these holier-than-thou, thin skinned, easily offened, whiners and Bible Belt hicks.

-Nim

Yamat · Jun 10, 2005, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by astzzz

And as far as droknar armor in lowbie arenas: since when has arena mattered for anything?

It matters because I want to play there and not get ganked.

What about people who are in non-competitive guilds made up of friends who just want to play pick-up PvP? Like me...

Just because it doesn't matter to you...

Wyked007 · Jun 10, 2005, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Bah, my guild is one that regularly rushes players. Right now we have a level 2 and a level 3 at amnoon oasis. Come this weekend we will probably push them through all three trials and get them ascended. But we do have rules on this.

We only rush guild mates, we only rush people who already have one char through ascention, and we only do it when we feel like it : )

the instant 20 is absolutely great for players that have already seen the game and want to try out some different characters in underworld/fissure and such.

First time chars paying to ascend, whatever, they are only cheating themselves and they will be shortchanged a lot of skills untill they spend the time to go back and clear areas to get em. let em run with it if it makes em happy.

Icarium · Jun 10, 2005, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyked007

the instant 20 is absolutely great for players that have already seen the game and want to try out some different characters in underworld/fissure and such.

First time chars paying to ascend, whatever, they are only cheating themselves and they will be shortchanged a lot of skills untill they spend the time to go back and clear areas to get em. let em run with it if it makes em happy.

this is what i dont understand, its not as if the players doing the run are without the option to NOT do it, or are they unaware of all "there missing out on" i see no problem with this, and i dont understand why others do. Of course not counting the whole "it wounds my ego" excuse. Thats awsome that Wyked and company work together like this

asdar · Jun 10, 2005, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by astzzz

And as far as droknar armor in lowbie arenas: since when has arena mattered for anything?

Of course it matters, it's a part of the game. PvP players are whining and crying about getting runes just to get rid of a miniscule advantage but someone outright cheating and with a huge advantage is alright?

No matter how skilled you are in the Ascalon arena you can't take a team with Drak armor. Your only hope in a situation like that is that you'll also have someone on your team that cheated.

Tactical-Dillusions · Jun 10, 2005, 07:04 PM // 19:04

The way i see it, Lornars pass was placed there for a reason. Something to do with grind elimination maybe? Hmmm.

I applaud anyone who can make the trip from beacons to droknars, level 3 or level 20.
If they ascend early for pvp reasons, good for them. I care little for pvp but i hope they get the best of what they want.
My experience could never be ruined by someone elses gameplay unless you include noobs drawing genitalia on the compass

asdar · Jun 10, 2005, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tactical-Dillusions

The way i see it, Lornars pass was placed there for a reason. Something to do with grind elimination maybe? Hmmm.

I applaud anyone who can make the trip from beacons to droknars, level 3 or level 20.

If the team fought their way there along with a 3 you might have a point but 1 warrior zones in with 5 other players that either sit by the zone or die so they can look through his eyes and he runs to Fort Rankor.

I didn't believe it was possible having won through to Rankor with a group the hard way and seeing all the slows and knockdowns but I watched it with my own eyes.

I won't give the set up but it takes about 20 minutes and no skill.

One warrior with the right set up could take 100 level 3's and the 10 and under arena is hosed. Not only the arena is affected by that either.

The rest of the PVE crowd will have people in their groups with overpowered armor and the challenge which is already too easy will be made even more so.

Rothgar · Jun 10, 2005, 07:35 PM // 19:35

In very simple terms rushing characters up to level 20 effects who's playing in the missions/quests/Arenas, who's doing Tombs, who is partying with who, how much money/items/runes/etc is entering the game. Basicly way the entire game is experienced by all the players in GW.

In most cases, the instancing reduces the effects any one player has on the game, however, GW characters are not instanced, they are persistant, and therefor their actions effect everyone in the game.

Now, if only one or twenty players were rushing characters through, then no problem, its not a big deal, but if thousands are doing it, it has a huge effect. Once that occurs, ANet is going to do something about it (either by stoping it, or rebalancing the economy, or something we haven't thought of). That is how it effects the individual player. Its pretty simple once you take a macro, rather then a micro, view of the world.

Currently, from what I've seen, the pro and cons of having this in the game seem to be pretty equal to me. Theres some good things that come from it (having more experienced players at the higher levels) and some bad things (level 10's with Forge armor, having newbies advanced to level 20 by a guild who doesn't know what exhaustion does, "cheapens" the game experience, etc).

So far those seem to be the biggest points in this discuession.

Keesa · Jun 10, 2005, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Jedsia,

Don't get discouraged... people defend what they think is a potential nerf target vigorously.

But... has this now switched to a discussion of "why it's bad to rush level 3's through to Droknar's so they can get uber armor" instead of "why it's bad to rush level 3's through Ascension?"

Because in my ethics set, the first is heinous whereas the second, well...

I came to GW a bit later than my guild. A friend of mine thought I'd enjoy it and badgered me until I bought it.

So I did, finally, and loved it of course. Then I had all these questions, and his guildmates were kind enough to let me in their Vent and began answering them and the next thing you know, I've been adopted. They gave me their runes that they couldn't or didn't use, pointed me toward the good websites, all that stuff.

But they were always PvPing so I rolled a PvP-only DW Healer to join them, which got me hooked to the point where I was impatient to run to the next area as quickly as I could, finish the game, and join them... because honestly, the preset characters just don't do it for me. So when I was level 13, they took me and one of our mates who was working on a new character concept (and was level 3

) through our Ascension missions.

I Ascended myself, and it took me a few tries, but I earned it. Our level 3 (actually 4 by the time we finished the missions) did too (did it quicker in fact, to my chagrin). And now I am able to PvP with my clan with elites I capture for myself and wearing armor I have earned and infused, and that was hard too. And now I'm going back and enjoying the storyline whenever I'm not PvPing with my guildmates, whose company I enjoy a great deal.

I hope that helps give you a different perspective.

Deagol · Jun 10, 2005, 08:12 PM // 20:12

After beating the game, you have to create new challenges for yourself. One possible such challenge would be to ascend with zero deaths. Or in the shortest amount of time. Or with least experience.

Ascending at level 3 is a challenge, it is definitively not the easy way out. getting an escort is not trivial, and avoiding to get any exp on the road even harder.

I know a lot of the people here have a MMORPG background, and are playing in order to build "the perfect character", rather than to beat the game. But Guild Wars is only halfway a MMORPG, and a lot of players come from single player games where the goal is to beat the game. And when that is done, beat it at a higher difficulty setting.

DarrenJasper · Jun 10, 2005, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker

That wooshing noise going over your head was my point.

If I play the game for eighteen hours to get skill "EliteZ" but you have three of your uber Elite friends just run you to level 20 and then go get all the skills in 3 hours then... um... well... yes it cheapens the effort I put in to attaining the same item. I personally don't care, but was making the point. Oh, and thanks for lumping me in a group of PvE only people. Let me throw your name in the worthless chump pile. (Yeah I think you are a male organ).

Laffo. I don't think you had a point to begin with, because now you're off on some completely different. We're talking about elites now?

Okay. Since how fast you get to level 20 really has nothing to do with getting elites, I don't know what the hell your example is trying to prove, but! If, to collect these skills, it takes you nine times the time it takes me and 3 other people (who are the same level), you are doing something horribly wrong. Or you should consider getting some friends... Which I understand must be a daunting prospect, given your winning personality.

Verbose · Jun 10, 2005, 10:56 PM // 22:56

I agree with the original poster that this ruins immersion and enjoyment of the game. Here is why (for me):

1) There is a set means and method of intended play. This deliberately bypasses it, which is not intended.

I suppose some of the folks who post here will want to argue over 'intended', but for all intent and purposes, the basic description for 'intended' is the one that the game maker designed, NOT some loophole you found in it. Any adult will understand the difference.

2) Deliberately bypassing intended content is bad for the game as a whole.

If you have to ask why this is the case, you're either not thinking or you're being obtuse.

3) Much of the sense of accomplishment a PvE player has lies in knowing that we all take the same route to the same end in PvE.

Deliberately bypassing content lessens that sense of accomplishment simply by virtue of trivializing the process in the name of 'being uber' or 'getting there faster' or whatever you want to call it that means, 'To heck with what is intended or what it may mean to anyone else playing, I want it and therefore, I am going to have it.'

I do understand, however, that these reasons, founded in logic, likely will not find much support in the 'my way or the highway' crowd, thankfully, it does not make them any less valid.

I would very much like to see ArenaNet put a stop to deliberate bypassing of content. It is bad enough that PvP players ruin every PvE session they're in with leaving as soon as they have a skill or getting everyone else killed to get their skill or any of the other various and numerous displays of thoughtlessness and disinterest in anyone but themselves.

I wish ArenaNet would give them UAS so they would shut up and get bored with PvP over the next year as PvP players always do, then leave the game to those of us who appreciate the content and intended progression as being 'the game'.

Anyway. I'm sure some of these rude people will flame me for daring to have an opinion. That does seem to be their way. Oh well. At least I can hope ArenaNet will hear something other than them in this post.

Keesa · Jun 10, 2005, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Can you please explain to us non-adult, non-thinking, obtuse players how having other people bypass content affects your gameplay? The only response to this question I've seen from the camp that makes statements like this is: "Your false accomplishment trivializes my own authentic one, and therefore undermines its value."

PhineasToke · Jun 10, 2005, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keesa

Can you please explain to us non-adult, non-thinking, obtuse players how having other people bypass content affects your gameplay? The only response to this question I've seen from the camp that makes statements like this is: "Your false accomplishment trivializes my own authentic one, and therefore undermines its value."

Here's an example, I spent TWO hours last night with a player who ascended to post at level 3, did NOT know mercs were free, did NOT know how to create a party, did NOT know how to sell treasure, did NOT know what trade chat was for, and had NO gold until I gave he/she some, and was uisng the original starter weapons.

Get the picture?

Keesa · Jun 10, 2005, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Actually, no, based on my experience. The level threes I know who ascended are all long time players.

The only person I know who Ascended a first-run character early because their mates helped them through it was, well, me. And I assure you I knew all of the above.

So let's toss both extremes out the window and readdress the question.

Edit: This is just a thought, but... did it perhaps occur to you at any point that in order to Ascend, one has to have grouped at least once? I don't mean this sarcastically... I just suspect your generosity and kindness were being abused.

spiritofcat · Jun 11, 2005, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Okay, I've read through this whole thread now, and I see that there are two quite different issues being discussed.

One: Players going from level 3 to level 20 instantly by rushing through to Ascention.

Two: Players rushing to Droknar's Forge and getting the best armour in the game then going back and playing in low level arenas with it.

In my opinion, point One has nothing to do with anyone but the players who do it. They have their reasons, and it doesn't affect you in any way, other than causing you be be bitter and jealous because it took you so much longer to get there.

Point Two may be considered a valid concern because it may upset the balance of those low level arenas and cause a decrease in the level of fun for the majority of 'honest low level players' who want to play there.